Why metals is the place to be when fiat currencies collapse w/ John Lee

June 4, 2024

Why metals is the place to be when fiat currencies collapse w/ John Lee

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hey everybody delighted to be back with you it’s the market sniper and we have John Lee founder and CEO of the silver elephant haven’t spoken in quite some time delighted to have you back John how are you keeping fine Francis good to be back thanks for the invite yeah it’s been a while it has indeed and boy has things moved since we last spoke as well what’s your take give us your take fundamentally gold silver uh it’s been I think it was a couple of years we have certainly moved in a very positive manner so uh how would you how would you build on that what’s your take we had a Hardy conversation about just under two years ago I believe and one of the things I remember talking to you was the the cup and handle formation with the neckline of gold at 2,000 and that each succession the intervals of gold hitting that neckline uh diminishes so sure enough uh early early 2024 I went on a Twitter and said this is best time to buy and gold is going to take out 2,000 and with a minimum Target of 2400 and with a a a um sort of optimistic Target of 2,800 and those levels Francis were based on um the sort of the bottom of the cup which is around 1,600 so on the linear scale then you flip on the other side of 2,000 is be 2400 but on the L on the log scale then you’re looking at uh about 35% from from the bottom to the the neck and then translate that from the neck to the top top then we’ll be looking at around 27 to $2,800 level I think there’s a 50% greater than 50% chance of us getting 2800 just based on historical context every time there’s a major breakout for gold especially given the significance of this alltime sort of level being breached um that go usually is g to quite a bit if you look at 2000 to 2005 going from 250 to over 500 and then and then from 200 2011 went from 800 800 to uh you know 1,600 so if if go were to stop here at 2400 with the 20% registered gain it’s sing littleit teame uh from just all aspects of it silver is been a bit of lered I would have expected silver to take out 30 when when when gold uh uh broke out of of of uh 2000 um and that’s just on a very net neutral 70 to to one gold to Silver ratio so silver has been lagered until just a couple of weeks till just a week ago part of the reason is is I’m sort of Looking Backward and try to sort of put the pieces together is much to do China I mean China has been through what the United States gone through um in the financial crisis and the Chinese equities were were lower than than the pandemic levels and you know back to 10 10 year old 10 level 10 nothing see from 2015 and prior and that has put a very heavy damper think on the retail investment demand from China as well as the industrial demand from China but since then there the whole economy seems to be refling and um the equities are rebounding the base metal sectors are rallying across the board like by copper who’s broken out to alltime high and now it’s sort of I think now we’re just a bit of a it’s either going to turn into a it’s either a obligatory retest to now the support level for go silver at 30 and for copper at just under five or it could be turning into something more Sinister with the cooking up of the dollar and the weak seasonalities is yet to be seen but I think the cards will be shown very short very shortly in the next couple of weeks on whether silver and Bas metal is going to resume their uh Rally or or if this is a false breakout of which we’re going to experience bit of a sum doldrum with with with Rising interest rates but under that scenario then the equities also have to buckle right so I think the O favor a a a sort of a van vanilla retest for the metals to to be embarking on a higher level along with equities and and Rising sort of um in the face of a risting interest rate so I mean I don’t think it’s a definitive call there’s there’s always glass half full half empty we just have to see what happens in the next few weeks I yeah there’s so much to agree with in what you just said uh you touch Stoned on copper as an industrial metal and how it’s really come alive uh that’s been moving a lot we’ve been highlighting writing that and there was uh the subsequent and recent uncloaking of Dr and Miller referring it to the almost the oneway BET um more recently which were views you and I uh have had on the long side well before uh that and now it’s the you know it’s becoming more open knowledge that’s usually when it’s about time for a little bit of a pullback as retail gets told about it um and that that’s been my Reckoning uh but generally sign ific L up looking bullish uh silver turned and broke the 30 which has been a technical level that’s quite recently it’s been a really big technical level uh the 30s we had the Wall Street bets high that was 21 along with the 20 high that was Gold’s high they were both quite tightly packed and since then it had leaned hard that level and we’d been selling off on Silver so this seems to be a very clear breakout of you know an almost threeyear for gation almost flag like um and I see that going uh substantially further as well like your goodself um and I also see the gold uh the next major levels being the the doorstep to the 3K just before the big doorstep to the 3K so uh that that’s one level of ever escalating higher levels because like you we use log scale projections when we’re dealing with the bigger time frames and we’ve got a six and a half we’ve got a 78 uh which many people will think wow you know that’s kind of big numbers for gold it just isn’t the same world and it isn’t the same dollar and a lot will have happened in that uh time space I imagine and um maybe you have a take because what I liked about when we last spoke is that clearly you engaged yourself with Mining and minerals but you’re very economically Savvy as well in terms of the larger things I’ll drag you into to the debt space uh I found it very interesting and maybe you’ll give you share your take comments that came out recently after the fomc meeting so this is quite recent a couple of nights ago um oh the whole economic system has lost its sensitivity to interest rates and we’re going to need you know the ability to cut and we’re going to have to keep higher and move more and what we’ve actually seen is more and more the rest of the world coming to a position we’ve always had is that the bond market the debt markets turned in 2020 the 40 bull market ended and the rat cycle are now the things that will be in Bull markets and rates will continue to go more High Than People imagine and for longer and the pullbacks will be shallower and shorter uh everyone thinking every time it’s a pivot I mean I sat having called the top of the bond market in 2020 being one of very few people that I knew that had positioned I knew no one in fact but more and more people have come to our Island in that space and I listen to everyone but the pivot the pivot the pivot and the phrase pivot now seems to have been quietly sheld much like the transitory inflation uh and many of the other narratives that seem to only serve for the short termism and and giving mood music to people uh to and also to lead them astray the kind words that are lies to lead you astray versus the harsh reality words that I like to speak that are very much a cold bucket of water and unwelcome but happen to never go out of fashion to quite the same degree as these mood music phrases uh what’s your take on the debt Market having given you that Preamble Francis uh we just started the company called Oracle commodity holding it’s just got listed on the TSX in Fe in in Mar in April not even two months ago we got about $6 million under management and really this is my passion and we should be working together I have an exact identical call and prognosis you cannot the ends are on the pot if you just turn the temperature all the way to 100 they could to jump right you need to have the end stay in so you got to dial the temperature up and down a little bit and then and then but the trajectory is higher up I also came on a couple programs in in in March of 2020 22 I remember was my birthday I think it’s 2022 I remember or 2021 when 10 year was one and a half% I said it’s going to double to three to 3% by the end of that year I think it’s 2021 or 2022 and went to four and a half percent um and uh I have and I just came on a couple programs yesterday and today is my highest conviction trade right now we’re are very very heavy short 10 year I think 10 year right now it’s it’s the best the both the fundamental and Technical trades are aligned and also the managers and cartels on our side wanted to push rates higher this is an ideal trade in my in my in my in my in my uh sort of from from my observation and the 10 year right now is tring at 109 just below the 200 day resistance we entered into what we shorted one 109 and a half and the 10year treas uh yield is at 4.3 4.4.4 and that is also at a 200 day support um what’s interesting is if you look at right now we’re look still looking at inverted y curve which doesn’t make sense on an inflationary environment you should be at 10 year a lot higher and historically on on inflationary overheated environment and you should be looking at 10 year at about 3% higher than the than the two-year and but now the 10 year is still negative from the two-year there’s been only three four occasions where the yield curves um is is inverted and every time this happened because the FED were too aggressive in in in fighting for a heated economy and then subsequently uh so the race race higher than than than the long the long rates but it’s always resorted back to a recession of which the short rates Decline and then and then to to to reestablish normaly this time round Francis I go on your show and that’s what I want to talk to you about today I’m glad you seg into that is you’re gonna see Fed funds rate at easily eclipse at 5% close to 6% level uh by sometime and of next year and you’re going to see a major reversal of the 10 year from from 4 and a half% to be to be uh to be trading at a premium in the yield higher than than than the two-year so you could be looking at 10e close to seven or eight perent in in the next I would just say 24 24 months this is a low medium term trade and you could be looking at a 30-year mortgage uh approaching double digit um this is a secular this is a 40-year secular bull market of the treasur coming to an end and and uh and it it Bears very significant resistance the significance the only difference between shorting Treasury and loing medals is Metals you have the manager the cartels working against you right so they have a limited War chest So you you’re fighting volatilities you’re you’re just fighting a a bit of a heartache uh you got to have you got to be able to stomach some of the volatilities but the Y trade like you said there’s going to be noise that’s the purpose of having all the fat governors coming in different days of different different takes and the minutes and then and then um and then the uh and the minutes are different from from from week to week uh however right now it’s it’s just red I think the Bloomberg economists or the bankers are are still pressing in at least another uh cut this year I think they’re going to be sorely disappointed and and they just just it just tells me that the market is still hugely asleep with the major Titanic shift of the landscape to be still sitting on four and a half year ten year doesn’t four half% 10 year doesn’t make sense at all you’re G to see just Awakening and you’re going to see the 10e zoom right past 6% as as as right now like the 10 year is on the cusp of taking out 5% any day now um and I think the market perception is also slowly changing and there’s some are some reliev of of the the FED are not not talking rate hikes and soon enough you’re going to hear the fed’s going to hike 25 bases and say good for now and like I it’s going to slowly turn the dial on the temperature I want to step up for a bit about copper um I’m a little bit dub dub on this breakout because even on the on the silver breakout it was on a on a on a very quiet Friday and it’s it’s a sneak attack on the bull by the Bulls um if copper would staging a breakout and any reflation of the economy oil should not be trading at below 200 day at 77 so this could be uh the copper trade in and also some extent sober trade could be could be a more speculative trade from Asia or elsewhere in anticipation of the stimulus from China and elsewhere so I am not still 100% quite convinced yet especially if the dollar would to spike um and and and with the summer coming in so it’s e so I probably 60% chance copper and Silver Stage Rally from here having retested was not the support but you still have a 20 30% chance of just Market turning sideway metal turning sideways with this summer and with this rallying dollar and there’s a slight chance of of of of these medals going back to testing below a station as a f breakout of which silver could go back to the 20s and copper could go back to the mid uh $4 range you mentioned summer doldrums and I quite like that phrase and I think that’s uh that still has a a reasonable possibility of coming about I let me respond to you a little bit because you you brought in some amazing stuff first of all I put up the that 30-year treasury Total return um that just regarding our story on De that’s kind of an inflection point round about the beginning of the 80s that was gold that was Peak gold and and this there’s quite a key point to this this was sort of 8081 um where Peak Peak gold uh and of course the Nixon window following the Vietnam war that started here and the overe expenditure that went into that never mind the mor moral issues we’ll just talk about at an economic level uh and the the proliferation the French calling for their gold and and wanting the dollars back the essentially that was the run on the dollar before it’s the same today it is that’s why I like this because I mentioned it and this is the 40-year kind of cycle so from the free float era they actually killed temporarily precious metals and they got free float and they got manipulation everything and isn’t it ironic that the Bond bull market if you look for the key inflection point for me I think if I’m the being the market sniper I fancy myself to be I am putting my uh sniper sites right there and saying that there is the beginning of uh the expansion and of course it coincided with the demonetization of precious metals and the financialization of everything on a basis of free float and credit expansionism and a debt bull market because essentially if you go from here this is when you’ve just literally done this and then of course the point of the chart is highlighting that you’ve actually lost 45% this particular diagram doesn’t show it but you’ve lost 45% nearly half from the highs in just a year in literally very short time spell I think the peak is 220 so uh it’s possibly three years uh into the beginning of 24 but uh the other point that you didn’t reference but that I like to bolt on to people that have like-minded view what took 40 years to inflate isn’t going to take 40 years to deflate escalator up elevator down and you’ve just had your first example of the elevator plummet uh where this is a building Parabola you know with in a percentage turn that’s got that sort of rounding uh Parabola where each one in percentage terms is going a little bit higher this is a very abrupt and a rude awakening to the downside um and what most people don’t seem to get is that for rates to go down people have to want to buy treasuries to the extent that they are climbing the ladder up to Bid to Buy in other words they’re gagging for it and now you have a government that has never proliferated so much at such a rate and has never found more pervert new reasons like funding the war in Ukraine sending Israel on top of an already the largest Nation recipient of foreign aid all forms of special foreign aid for military uh reasons very dubious ones uh and every other um dark State military industrial complex Insider Boys Dirty deals uh harvesting this feels like the end of the Grand Hotel where the staff are unpaid and are peeling the valuables Off the Wall yeah and it is a stripping almost for in lie of the financial uh end of the con you know the control Demolition and literally the the final thieves the smaller thieves are even getting in on the ACT stripping the grand old lady of its acids assets before it’s left a burn shell that is how I feel about the current Fiat and debt system and to return to where you once were when the inflection went wild and gold was King actually on this chart is a level for bonds so low it probably represents a 95% decimation from the highs of 2020 in terms of its distance above zero it is almost negligible and that for me is the round trip of debt and so I am I am the ultimate bear on uh debt but of course they don’t want to let it happen they are balancing the balls in that sense so well uh they don’t want to let it happen uh in the same way as keeping precious metals controlled when we had the the the I want to your high yield junk debt was supposed to capitulate and we were short we had lots of puts on it in the previous crisis uh March 2020 and then they suddenly the FED showed up and said they were going to stand and good the ETFs of hyg which happened to be the one I shorten junk jnk so they literally held up the ropest part of the debt Market because the contagion of allowing it to start fraying at the edges and uh pulling out would have seen the entire it would have been the equivalent of letting LeMans go and not watching the rest of the banks go during um the rest of them so uh it’s unbelievable uh the where we stand but truth has to how do you see it playing out I see a little bit differently I would not use the word inflate and deflate it’s not really deflating and secondly I probably used 10 year better than 30y year because as you know 30y year had there’s being sterilized has government has been issued 30y year for for for for for a while the conclusion is the same but I I see things a little bit differently and that’s that’s really through a deductive reasoning and critical thinking and conjur up whether the story why you believe is or not eventually you know it’s whether you’re making the is whether the market is aligning right with you your thoughts or not so I would not use the word inflating and deflating and the way I look at it is um the the this is by Design so what we have is this what we have is a a a a engineered debt binge to create the demand for the Fiats and then the subse subsequent calling the Fiat home to roost so so in order to achieve the uh 2030 agenda of oh nothing and be happy so you absolutely have to create the maximum demand for for Fiat and and which was achieved in 2019 2018 where you have bonser trading at a premium which means it’s pure speculation right because if you went to maturity you lose 20 cents on the dollar and so you had the max you get the guys absolutely it’s almost like opos you got you apply maximum dosage to get the guys hooked on and then then you put the rug under them and so it’s um however you cannot you cannot be doing just you you have to keep the patient alive you cannot just kill the entire world population because the world go in Revolt and then they’re gonna find the people to blame so you have to keep them so you you’re so they’re leaning off the dosage right now but the eventual outcome that that is to be desired and is engineered is a despair is is a m is is is is slavery and and uh so the timing and the instruments and the events were I believe all engineered and the like they are literally asking people not to buy like they they want to get people out of like they they want they want the debt Market to collapse so I any support is only as a last resort I mean they don’t the managers cannot even if have eight octopus right they cannot managing all the little details so what they are they’re not controlling like weekly cpis or an Employments or a bank will fail or not it’s too much micromanaging but they just want to make sure the direction is steered uh in the in the in in the direction they want which is which is taking liquidity out of the market and uh through through the purchasing I mean and and and and have the interest to go a lot a lot higher for instance it’s it’s it’s one of the very few trades where the power that be align right with with with with the fundamentals and the fundamentals of Fiat is they’re they’re not worth anything and and the the interest is to go lot higher to entice the public to be to be to be staying in the game but right now what we have is is that the market is so oblivious they’re still bidding up 10 year to have the year lower than the two-year I think before you know eventually you get you’re for sure you’re going to have the 10year yield trading at least 200 300 basis point higher than the two-year which is going to be staying at above 5% from here you know before 2030 is over and at the time when you at at the time when you you say hey when is it time to get out of the precious metals Market it’ll be much like the 1980 scenario when the world is going crazy when the yios are going double digits and and uh and so like I said it’s a lot mirroring uh today of what was happening in the 1980s i was a child I don’t know what but my father was telling me they had to pay 20% to buy their first home when when I was 5 years old and I you know I was born in 74 yeah I just Market thing about the market for instance um I every time you say you know what you say oh this time is different this time is different right how is goal this time different from being being put back under the lid if you look at the news just came out Russia is confiscating all of the US assets that’s sitting in Russia including equity of of of ukos of gas prom of of of all the US assets well it’s long overdue because $300 billion dollar being of Russian’s money is being sitting in the Swift of which they couldn’t get out and and China right now is slapped on the 200% EV EV um EV tariffs and then China is is not buying amds and intels anymore you seeing that division kind getting wider and wider so you’re not you only seeing the start of that it’s not like people are patching up right like putting a like you know okay the show is over right that’s let’s go back to the ultimate agenda of of of of of the elites banding together to to screw the little peasants right now you having there’s a war going on and then also with the Advent of digital currency of which the euro is already publish the ECB is really publish white paper and Euros is imminent inevitable the the digital euro is coming to uh is coming to frish in the next 18 months and and the guys are you know the billionaires like the founder of Zera and and and you know these well Elite some of them don’t want to play this game and they don’t want to be microm mandated on where they can go what they can buy what they can eat when when can they shop and the only way to for them is to buy physicals and and just the way in observing how gold was um was acting in defiant of a rising dollar from from 1900 to 2300 this is not like what we had before where there’s some sort of a you know climatic event of of of of of Traders just of bidding up um the medals this is this felt a lot more different now we got a temporary breather and 50-day moving average is about 23 2320 um you know we briefly touched that level I’m not sure it’s going to go down to 200 day of of just over 2 2070 it’s also always possible in the summertime but if that were to happen it will present a wonderful opportunity for those who hasn’t who hasn’t established a position yet so right now we’re not Full Throttle on on silver we got out out of gold and right now we are just we’re just heavy into a very heavy into a treasury short because that is that is highest confidence level trade that can sit down there long term which going to roll over for the next uh 12 months until the 10 year trades at the premium to to twoe and then we see if the landscape is at the time yes you mentioned yield curve inversion uh and we’ve introduced that a lot to a lot of people who are unfamiliar with the concept on YouTube and many others that are um and this is the longest inversion of the modern era so the pre 79 yeah so uh a I often say the bigger the dip the bigger the the the the balce the shock on the other way the overreaction because there’s you know there’s a natural geometry to dipping deep and low you the Snapback is Harsh um when do you expect it to happen um and what do you think will be the immediate outcomes of it happening when it reverts because as we often make the point the reversion is the problem the crisis typically starts to be come known at that point you’re right there’s about three or four different occasions there’s the 1995 um there’s a 1995 or 2000 I think there’s one at 2007 it’s always when the FED uh high cut the race too fast to try to Tain the heating economies and then subsequently with the correction the fact then do a 180 and start cutting rates the the market is still expecting that the inflation being temporary so the market is still betting on the FED cut interest rates while while the while the 10year normaliz is at about four and a half percent the inflection point I think is going to come very very soon because breakout happened and um almost almost two years ago for uh 18 months ago for 10 year to be trading at five 5% and now it’s just consolidating at the 4% level and um soon as the the First Rate hike by the FED which might happen this year or if not early next year right after the election but the two years is already trading close to the 5% breakout level again so it’s already giving tipping your hands in that the fat is likely to be hiking race but not cutting so I think the first that I think it’s going to be first like by the two-year breaking out of 5% which could be imminent this year followed by the fat uh uh hike that interest rate that would be I think the epiphany epiphany moment that the 10-year treasury holders hey wait a second right the narrative this time it’s not like three or four times has happened since 1980 and that’s why this y c is still inverted for so long more than a year and a half now whereas previous times is only less than 12 months is that people are still waiting for the r cut it’s still not happening so people are still very uh they’re just being uh they’re just being stuck up in in in thinking the past which is not true however though I I am not sure when you say we know if if the 10 year to were to were to uh if the 10 year were to were to uh yield with to break out and and the the all the shit’s going to hit the fence right I’m not necessarily buying into that theory because things are very very bad we know just antidot in in in in in in my traveling right things are not the same even though the equities are hitting alltime high and I I I think I briefly touched down I think I think you showed me the Cosby and what not I say hey be careful in in getting these Bear Tracks and sure enough right we have all major indices especially that the Taiwanese index all they’re all establishing alltime High my my view on that is you have some uh players that are playing not by the rule not by the books which means that they are they are literally have the printing press they own 70 80% of S&P and and all the major um they’re just they’re not playing by the rules it’s it’s the currency has their face printed on it they they they do as they please it’s like I’m King of the castle it’s my currency you know it’s not like it’s not like if I need to if I need money I need to plug to the bank and and filling my application and and filling my qualifications uh plunge Protection Team it’s all just pretense for the vanguards and the U the uh the state streets and the uh vangar St and black rocks I think they collectively along with other offshore Vehicles a handful of guys probably control 70 to up to 80% maybe even more of the S&P and higher rates are not going to deter them from their continued program buying um that is the only conclusion I can come up because every time I short I lose money it doesn’t make sense to have a war between the world’s fure largest economies with a war going on in Ukraine with with Russia with bricks with this all this frictions and yeah you have markets breaking an all-time high and and with with risk free rate doubled yet the dividend yields has an increased do none of it makes sense other than that there are some people that are not playing by the rules have have limited access to liquidity and they’re just accumulating um the equities and markets and also the other intial evidence is Evan cryptos the people that I hire from gen Z from Millennials from from from Baby Boomers none of them invest in s&p500 but they’re all talking about cryptos so I think just the vehicle to distract I mean of of the ordinary people from buying the equity Market because they want have they need to own the Microsoft the Googles apples Facebook in order to continue their surveillance right and provide provide that several major strategic powers of control to continue to influence the public to sway their opinions and lead the path of which um the power that be uh want them to be led yep I think uh there’s very little to argue with with that summary um and the thing with the other part is for explaining how things go up when it feels so bad markets go up they climb wall or worry all that usual story but um the retail consumer is squeezed I have what I call the two Ballo half Theory where you have the clown that’s making an animal for your kid with a balloon and he’s done the first twist dividing the balloon in two halves where the air represents the energy and the flow of money and what’s actually happened is done the they initially were 50/50 but what the the the air in the one is seeping into the other and all new air is going into the 1 half which is statest uh my we’re already in a very uh communistic surveillance Society people that say one day they’re trying to get a new world order and you’re already in that uh that the state uh is the biggest spender now in most instances uh and the biggest purve of contracts and it is going to statist corporate fascist surveillance Finance type corporations such as the ones you describe Microsoft Amazon the military industrial complex are are Contracting them to house the defense servers the CIA servers the FBI these are tentacles these are tentacles of their reach one thing you said though not only are not they H not only do they control the printing price of which they can print whatever they want whenever want to buy whatever they want they’re not still H they’re still not happy enough that they want to debase your currency they want to debase this voucher I mean I look at it as a voucher system their wealth is not measure in dollars so now you’ve accumulated so much paper in the last 40 Years of expansion like you like you said there right so some smart people were able to accumulate their wealth in these papers now they want to debase that money deliberately to try so that it’s they’re just not playing by the rules they’re just they they want to change the rules of the game now even if you survive through this this expansion and come out ahead they still want to screw you by debasing that money and by just go hand in hand you see to drive the value up of the assets that they’ve bought they debase the money but the to drive down the debt that they utilized at a very low cost rate as a Insider value down they debase the money so the debasement of money serves them on both sides they got cheap access to credit to buy corporately many of them through corporations and uh assets like that so it’s not just about um oh we’ll flush out the final people with it that’s a almost like a side effect bonus for them they’re actually killing the debt that they borrowed to own the asset it’s it’s it’s being devalued chronically and the asset price is valuation is climbing that’s why equities are going up not because it’s a great economy but because the basis by which you’re measuring everything is going so chronically down you have to hold something that has an earning stream because at least even though the monkey money and that’s my chosen phrase uh the monkey money that you they pay you in and they uh uh are utilizing um is is is being de debased at least if you get an equity um the pricing will build that in because your cup of coffee will still go up because the inputs will go up everything will go up and therefore the return still being a normal return will go up with it and thereby you retain buying power out of that income stream so it’s it’s yeah it is it’s almost as as you say it’s a it’s debasement all around except on the things that they purchased so it’s really the big solving the great puzzle can be distilled down to asset allocation you either in Monkey money exactly real that’s all B boil is down to right you know for instance I would go even one step further when you say they have access to cheap debts uh to purchase assets I would go even one step further and say that the debt is an illusion the debt is a just a storytelling to enroll the public into playing this game and what I mean by that is is uh the the ultimate guys are not playing by the rules like the debts like they are just taking they’re just printing whatever number that they want from the FED like the fed the FED as I looked up they’re they’re they own they they are they are they are they’re not private according to the defish according to encyclopedia and they’re reported to the governor which is appointed by the president which is non-c compass mentas who is cile so who’s controlling them pretty impress this is oblivious but the trend has been following since 1913 by Design the banks the banks are just they the banks are their reach to G Garner assets because they can control the banks easily but now with the advented digital currency they don’t even need the Swift system and the the Wells Fargos and then the intermate banks and the credit union banks they only need that anymore because with the Adent of of of digital currency right they don’t need this intermediaries anymore so they can actually dispense they oh you know my God banking price is coming UBS is falling down DOA bank is going to be a fin apopalypse and said no these Banks all all they owns FAS these Banks could be all done away with because eventually all you have is these banks are just intermediary uh of of of of of intermediate Vehicles by by the power that be to manage you know the illusory monetary system because when it comes to the end the guys that print are not playing by the rules whether you want to create The Ledger of asset versus liability I owe you versus not eventually it’s a cal system they they are at this point in time nobody’s talking about the deficit anymore right there’s no talk of deficits there’s no talk about balancing this balancing that so everybody’s be cop out and the guys are just printing to buy real assets and that’s S&P 500 included that’s why you also see there very wide divide between the performance Russell versus S&P because they’re not going to bother with the Russell right with the mom and pops and they’re Central they’re centralizing all the industries into into um these these major companies which in effectively has become State own just like CH just like China state of Enterprises because all the policies the data the the direction um the Evolve and the development is all dictated by the fed and uh if you say no you know Black Rock right it’s going to call him Tim Cook and show him the Sher registry and that’s all that there is it’s really unfortunate that real ass has are being exchanged for Fiat that’s being printed at well by a very select few people unfortunately we’re just being so oblivious lot the asset managers in their 40s you know they’re born they they’re just they’re so oblivious and people are still hoarding to buy 10 year right and um at 4% I think it’s one of the best trade Francis you and I sitting here of of the next decade this is EXA we’re at look we missed a trade in 1980 think of us that we miss a trade in 1980 to buy treasury like okay so maybe we didn’t miss maybe we missed the trading shorting treasury 2021 at 1% but we are still first inning with the first inning second inning in in in a treasury bear Market this is a Fant fantastic trade that we’re witnessing real time right now yeah short short debt is our favorite you know our short debt has been our favorite uh and we we took the long-term uh ETF um I’m trying to think of its name again and we shorted that right from very high we shorted in July 2020 August 2020 that was uh after the volatility it had and the super blowoff strength it had and uh that was a top call and it was our first top call on debt and it was in the same year that it turned um and it you it’s it’s a it’s a lifetime it’s a rain maker trade yes you know Julie is a rain had a twoyear consolidation almost two year right it’s ready to break out again yeah but I’m glad I’m glad to be talking to somebody who’s passionate about bonds as I am everybody’s rolling their eyes about yeah as passionately uh out of love with him um I would say uh given your profile tell people and I mean I this I hope this isn’t an annoying or a cliche question but what should if we are going to be the for the westerners the average westerners and I I keep warning them you need to leave your country and everyone says they want to make a stand and fight and defend their country and I say well unfortunately you’ve allowed the parasites to rule their head so you you can stand too at a local level these guys are going to put into place the destruction mechanisms and Biden’s ction against Russia is a destruction mechanism because it obviously invites a Tit for Tat it’s obviously going to see American assets lost or for for they don’t care and they don’t care and they they don’t care but it’s going to be inflicted on corporations and it’s going to continue the bation which means you’re picking a fight with the workshop of the world that you helped create which is China uh okay higher inflation which is exactly what he want exactly that’s why I say why would you want to do that well because China will slap tariffs they get more expensive Trump will slap tariffs on China that gets makes everything more expensive who pays you do your Walmart uh items all just suddenly at their lowest cost the super scaled economy business that has the scale of everything suddenly doesn’t deliver cheap Goods anymore because you you’re trying to Source from other places I have I’ve had a little bit of a two and fro with the the guys that have been very proud about the dollar strength so there’s a sort of American nationalism a little bit of the dollar milkshake uh guys but they tend to while their Theory says gold wins in the end they don’t talk like gold bugs they talk like dollar bugs uh and whilst their Theory uh says um you know it’s a terrible place and America hasn’t been good they talk about they compare American data releases and they say how fraudulent China’s is not to say China’s is great but they if they only knew how fraud their own stuff was truly they maybe wouldn’t be so proud so we get this kind of American nationalism um I think you’re up in Canada and I know we are both westerners we’re not I’m not dying to have the the China the Chinese uh Communists be masters of the world in any level or degree but what should we be warning those that have a sort of and I love the everyday American citizens I’m talking very much about a certain Financial Twitter uh group Maybe and obviously the people that are very Pro their governments that don’t see the the the the the exorbitant privilege and its mismanagement of the Federal Reserve let’s just leave it like that the parasite within um how what would your message be and what is awaiting us when um if if China has a much more marked role and America has a greatly reduced role in the global world uh for us I don’t see it that way first of all the dollar is is just a symbol of Fiat it is the it’s the de facto voucher system it could very easily be EUR Euro or be be uh the pound or be something else that’s synthetic and the reason the dollar is chosen because of it’s Legacy history which is noer the case so and I a dollar Bull from the dollar Index perspective because all the other currency already be subordinated the guys that’s behind the FED is the same guys as behind the boj and and the ECB and Boe and boc they’re all the same people it’s just not easier to control one currency than having to uh having to uh having to tell other people what to do and can I jump and say that being a dollar bull means we are the biggest bear on the debt because it’s a rates driven bullishness on the dollar which will be a rates driven collapse in the debt and they are the biggest issuer so they have to keep that devaluation uh side of the Seesaw down so when you say dollar bull you’re also implying um bearishness on the American debt which also talks to at least you’re consistent yes consistent from the bottom from the analytical level I’m just talking from the from the top level if I’m looking if I’m the king if I’m the king of the castle right and I I manage six different provinces and because of their histories ethnicities have different local currencies I want have control one currency so the only way to do that is to have all the other Pro provincial currencies subordinated to the currency that the I print and then way you do that is by military strength is by it’s it’s by by coercing and by Conjuring things of two Accords um so that’s the first point secondly secondly um again I want to bring up to the higher philosophical level because this is a philosophical discussion at this point somewhat is that the people unfortunately that’s behind the US fed and the US government they’re the same people that financed Lenin um 100 years ago they’re the same people that financed madone um 80 years ago so it just taken them a little longer to to to to to take over the United States which they are essentially done this is this is not this is not about Democrats or Republicans I mean this has been long in the making since the founding since the founding the United States 280 years ago so you know all the woke stuff which come out of nowhere and the equality gender I mean it’s not like South Africa where you’re right now different races a lot easier to play to play The Cars right but in any case I don’t see it as the rise of China versus the demise or the sort of decay of I don’t see it that way and the reason Chinese and America is fighting is not because of some ideological differences democracy versus communism it’s because because because uh the the guys that behind the US and and the Europe in the Europe controlling Europe and elsewhere they are becoming a lot more embod because they they’re they got bored they got bored of this hemony they want to they wanted to start something like they did in the in the 1970s this they got bored simply and then also the middle classes accumulate too much fat and wealth they are interfering with their they got they’re they see too many people when they go vacation in Venice right they just they just say hey you know what the tone need to be things need to be dialed down we need to go back to we need to own less and be more compliant um the problem was that shiin ping shiin ping and Mong see eye to eye so shining is not from the same faction as as as Jing and maon and D shaing who were financed by the Kazarian and they’re not even Jewish by the way H so these people so so Shin have some beef just like pu with how the perceived Count’s asset which is AKA their own assets were paged so they they’re fcking bucking against the trend in refusing to give a stake of ukos in gas prom in Ceno Farm in in in accessing the Chinese market in in also indoctrinating the Chinese and the Russian public with some of their you know craziness sadistic uh teachings and so and so Putin and and and and uh and uh Shin don’t want to put up with it and that to the demands of the guys are behind the scenes and that’s why you’re having this war right now this is not about democracy or or or right of China versus this this is none of that this is about very few PE a hand of people exerting Global control dominant Global control and you have a few Fringe elements uh that don’t want to play by the by the books same with the uh Brazil president right um that just got arrested in courts and and now you got Zula com in and uh you know funny enough too you’ll be it’s interesting just to back up what I’m saying is if you look at Global Equity indices and there is a gap and there’s a lot of discrepancies the more closely aligned between these countries and the and the power that be the guys behind the scene namely you know the dollar and the Euro system the higher the equity indexes are so if you look at say Taiwan right which have to rely on United States to cover to protect them and the tsmc of which it’s gone crazy because the cels are accumulating or Brazil like soon as so once you en roll into the dollarized system or EUR EUR system all of a sudden their equities and real estate boom because that provided a very easy access for the King right to accumulate more and the guys that bucking the trend you can also see that Hong Kong China you know to some extent Korea and uh they just they don’t like the storyline they they’re not it’s kind of like that movie right 100 or 300 you know the the gorilla came and then you you either bow down symbolically and pay a token of toll or you say no right so the Russian and the Chinese say no I’m going to throw my javine and and and make a go at it and there are some that just pay a little more lip service like the Koreans and there are some just outright defining right so I think there’s a lot of different you can see that just through their Equity market performance I mean I mean sure enough in a globalized world if there’s a reflation in the global economies everybody should be leveling up at the same rate more or less right but you’re seeing this tonomy of different uh market performance and that’s because that is a uh that could be explain or describe as the compliance levels that these countries have to the uh to the big boss that’s behind the scene that’s that’s a very high level descriptive that’s guys my sort of investment thesis I think you’re almost there uh I just think even the Russian and the Chinese are controlled too but they controlled to be adversarial so they get their synthesis by having the thesis and the antithesis but the role that Russia and China are playing are actually almost the sensible role while the West goes woke and loopy uh so that’s why everyone gets to say well we deserve to fail we lost it in the end um and I think unfortunately the West does fail uh but then we slump into the middle ground which it’s ironic but you actually have an EXC communist state Russia a current communist state China actually representing in some senses more reason and less provocative Behavior then the supposed original capitalist nation that is America and Europe I think Europe’s a reluctant partner in the antagonistic uh agenda that America seems to be driving and I think that’s where that Kazarian element has got they Diest deepest and they’re the tip of the spear they drive the hardest there you know you look at Newland now and saying how Ukraine should be hitting Russian cities deep in and all of this stuff this is the lady that overthrew a legitimately uh in place president of Ukraine in 2014 with a rent a crowd um so yeah yeah yeah Francis two things um I have to saying just because you your your enemy’s enemy doesn’t mean they’re your friend and you don’t you I I lived in Russia briefly in doing business and several visits there and um I lived in China I’m from Taiwan but I’ve done a lot of business in China it just you don’t want to be in that system so you know it’s definitely I don’t see as a morality issue that’s a first and secondly you I go back to the question you asked me though I just here watched right here what Would You Do You Gotta Be You Gotta diversify your assets out of the United States and Europe um in in preparation of the Euro digital currency we have a couple of shareholders been through audit where 30 40 million euros of their money was confiscated at the bank and they they went through a a a a a cleansing audit to try to and and they lost some money in that process these monies were legitimately earned through real estate real estate it’s not like they had any ties into into communist or or or money laundry so I see this is a pre step in cleansing the money in in in in in taking away any perceived your gten gains or or any the any of their avoral powers or any money that’s hidden under the mattress to be to be primed the market to be the next stack which is the digital currency when you get to that stage you really screwed they’re going to track your carbon you will not be able to travel more than three times a year regardless how much money you own your bank account or eals or buy F12 v112 Ferraris or more or more than three condos it’s just like your your currency your voucher system your money become voucher think of when you go to the supermarket coupons right this I can only buy this but not that and only during these days but not those days this is already happening in Taiwan during the pandemic they experimented with this voucher system they were giving you money that looks just like the real money except that it has an expiration date and then also sometimes will it will designate the places where you can buy things so they are already implementing that psychology to the people so the money looks almost the same right except at the back of it it’s like you know you got to buy before March 31st because this is a promotional by the government to stimulate to to stimulate the economy post pandemic so this be ass sure friends this happening they’re going to take your money and once your money is converted you’re gonna you’re going to struggle to buy gold from Kito you you’re gonna you’re not you’re going to struggle to buy things you want to eat and where you want to go and where and when you want to do and where you want to buy you need get out of it and I am not a huge uh I just sold some of my real estate holdings to invest in Oracle um for the to go public so I’m liquidating some of my Equity Holdings to deleverage and I would I would say if if you own your P principal residence this is not a doom and gloom still uh real estate our assets right like the like Bill Gates and then Jeff bezos’s all you know a lot of farms and and buildings so the real assets real quality assets still going to go in price but if you have leverage and expecting the risk go down edding on that you you got to you got to reverse your course so I sold a couple C of Estates um in in in Bangkok recently it seemed to have uptaken the market from the Chinese money but but uh I am continue to deleverage uh some of my Estates in United States and also in uh in Canada it’s just the the the the uh the the the interest is going up the rules regulations are are going up and and uh and um the capital gains tax has been hiked in Canada um and then there there’s rules about that foreigners cannot buy you have to occupy principally in your residence for more than six months of out of the year just more and more these things are just like who owns this place right and um so I am not a big fan of real estate especially particularly uh sort of vanilla varieties uh in in highly levered Market fris those are my maret ofx extraction strategy buy some precious metals also y yeah yeah yeah yeah absolutely precious metals it’s part of everyone but it does seem the the they the more rules more EGS more crowding they you know the kettling the the riot police kettling where they trap people in streets in a in a circle you know this town square and they then they close in and they that’s how they hoard your behavior into certain spaces and then they control you then everyone has to sit down no one’s allowed to pee getting the financial you’re getting the financial equivalent of checking 30 years ago when I was a student in London they have this scan show I’m Oxford Street whereas oh you can you have like a rabbit like a cell phone and batteries and toys come in come in right so you go in close the door so they started like charge like it’s exactly they will try to they are your exits are being blocked one by one you gotta by the there will be a time when it’s too late but there’s a plenty of telltale signs and it’s for the first time in 20 years I we started buying gold uh just be you know when gold was right about 1,800 I said this is not about this is not about your bank balance or making money out of this is a permanent this is a permanent trade like you got to stash it away with my silver I last Plus silver was 2005 I Plus on 2015 around $18 and I’m starting buying silver physicals again and U this is not about making a trade uh like this is about just something happens and there there’s a mandate of any sort there’s even talk about Australia as in UK right the frequency commercial flights started going like you could be stranded and um of you know reducing frequency of of commercial flights I mean literally that they they literally want to handicap you with this green cities bike Lanes uh EVS it just all of the all of this is part of um the scheme like even the United States not in New York you cannot build commercial buildings with gas fired heat system right why why because it’s not easier to turn off the switch than to turn off the gas tab it’s it’s you there there is a lot very lot very number of subtle movements and and things you got to really be careful hopefully I’m wrong but I’m not so Doom and Gloom though there’s always a party elsewhere so you know like you right I BR in Asia in in in Us in Canada in in all different parts of the world and I mean they their places are they’re having a good time and so like I said there always going to be elements uh perceived as Rogue to the power that be of which of which you can you can you can you can do quite well there and it’s quite safe in many parts of the world Eastern Europe another example um I’m talking to friends in Croatia and in Serbia and in you know they they’re doing quite well yeah excellent tell us uh we will need to wind down on our really enjoyed talking to you we are very like mind I’d like to chat a little bit more with you about all the interesting things you’re doing um after the call but uh your particular state of play with your very very interesting uh silver elevant uh development where is everything standing and how can people follow your progress yeah first of all follow my Twitter John Lee silver elephant where I do a lot of market analysis and calling some uh trades that we are uh we are uh taking we undertaking and um I’m I’m very much the same approach as you are in in marrying fundamental and with Technical and then making some sense out of out of the sort of crazy world so follow me on Twitter first of all silver elephant has been my baby for 15 years um my passion is investment and uh the uh the asset has come a long way and it’s producing uh silver generating cash flow um and it’s got 100 million ounces in the ground with over $50 million investment and right now the stock is trading at $20 million doubled in the last couple weeks um in in this dollar silver breakout and uh but still very very undervalued you can look at it as a call on Silver um of of which you’re buying silver for 20 cents an ounce in the ground of course there’s risk of of of of political risk environmental risk um pricing risk operational risk uh but if you are a firm believer in U in higher silver prices to come then this is a interesting uh interesting trade to consider and then check us out at Silver al.com what is the ticker symbol for everyone is it Toronto listed yes it’s listed on the Toronto Stock Exchange main board under EF and under the OTC under SF TR at 50 cents it’s good good liquidity now trading uh 300,000 shares half a half a million shares a day so does have good liquidity and uh I would say that this is even maybe a better entry point than than say when silver was under 30 right even though it’s doubled in price at 50 cents it’s still 80% from what it was three years ago when the silver broke out from 18 to to to 30 in 2020 excellent and you’ve already pulling the silver out from the ground so it’s a function mine I think last time we spoke you was you hadn’t got that far right the project has uh the pro the silver minerals starts from surface and it goes one kilometer to um one kilometers to uh underneath the ground so so there are some pockets of very high grade silver that were recently discovered and the artisanal Miners and the guys back in 1800 1900 U managed by the Spaniard they were mining very high grade underground so veins but we managed to find some pods uh satellite PODS of very high grade silver and what we’re doing is we’re Trucking these silver to a plant about 150 kilometers from where we are and uh we we got um for a total of up to 7 million US Dollars they’re literally just scooping up you know this PS of of of looking like dirt off the ground and shipping to their factories for processing uh and there were they’re paying for all of our operating expenses um community relations and which is great because once once uh royalties are being paid people are being hired you usually get less trouble from the uh from the government because everybody is a status quo right there’s Revenue coming in so there are a lot fewer troublemakers so right now we are self-sustaining uh we’ve only only diluted 2% of our equities in the last nine months just to pay our director settle some of the management debt and and um the the money from the company called India mining is is uh filling our daily expenses by the early next year for instance early next year we will have a permit to build a plant at the site so from there then we can then process materials in-house and then and then so that we can write much higher margin than we are now earlier just you know pay the bills right so certainly we’re not we’re not getting that leverage on higher silver prices because the seven up to 7 million is fixed but that’s just a scrape of the service that’s like 2% of our resource for the project and so the crown jewel is to yet to be exploited a little bit deeper from surface so we’re very excited about it and I think the store is somewhat uh uh quite undiscovered and and we just being so busy um um getting Oracle commodity listed as a company we just listed we took the Oracle symbol from Oracle us is o o or RCF on the on the TS Ventures and so we’re just busy getting some of the domestic affairs sorted out and now we have and that’s why we are sort of uh you know putting ourselves out there just uh make the story known and re getting reacquainted with uh with you and with a few other uh supporters and people that are close to us excellent excellent John Lee of uh silver elephant great to have you back on thank you so much for giving us an update on your progress and also for your takes on the debt markets the precious metal markets and everything else we chested about today such a pleasure hopefully sometime we talk again the end of the year at $50 silver $2,800 gold and you looking 5% feds and around 6% well 6% will B to Mar stretch but but higher tenure uh and it would be interesting to pick up that discussion at that time indeed look forward to that [Music]

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