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so what the heck happened you you and your wife buy this company and seven years later you’re running what is this now a $2 billion concern or oh so we went from um we went from about 30 million to a billion in in seven years and this year the end of our eighth year we’ll be about a billion to uh I I can’t believe I I’m still the CEO of this thing thank you for having me on this is a an honor to be here I told you last night you know the the experience of of watching you uh for years and what you’ve done for the American working person um inspirational so I know you don’t like that of always but uh well if we’re going to do this I mean let’s just embarrass each other I think I think you’re going to be on the cover if you haven’t been already you’re going to be the CEO of the year at some point I I doubt it I’m just telling you no it’s it’s going to happen um we’ve taken a as deep a dive as we can in understanding what the last 6 seven years have been like for your company but I’m telling you man I have never seen I’ve never seen a commercial campaign come together like the one that you ultimately agreed to do I’ve never seen a company put their employees uh forward to that degree I’ve never seen a company trust their people to that degree trust me to that degree I mean you let me go into a crawl space under a house you let me work on a foundation in a completely unscripted way uh not with actors no Ad Agency involved we did this thing and you know Mary and I have looked at the work again and again and we’re like this is just speaking from my industry I haven’t seen this happen before so you know we don’t need to talk about it in depth but I just wanted to get it out of the way up front that was an unprecedented thing but then again so was the announcement in Virginia Beach a couple years ago yes so maybe we should just start there okay what what has made groundworks uh such a weirdly unusual company in 2024 well that’s a lot to unpack I think the first thing is this this business was really built around giving dignity and respect to the blue collar skill trade men and women of our industry like it was it was really built around can we build a company that honors the professional and not just punch a clock yeah right so you know all full disclosure I am not a blue collar worker um I didn’t grow up with the shovel and and and the things that I saw you do on those commercials I’ve been around but I could never move around like that like you did um as deep respect for the men and women that make up our company but when I when I founded groundworks in May of 2016 my wife and I bought a company to build this and um I always had this notion that the power of of equity and ownership was seem seemed to be regulated to or or only focused on whitecolor workers and you you’re from San Francisco you you read so many stories from Baltimore sorry wound up there briefly we’ll unpack that later I’m not sure why you’re still there for but the sorry the uh you you you always read stories about these you know 20-year-old men of how they developed an app or they work at a great tech company and and overnight they’ve had success and I I thought even even long before ground which is my fourth company that why can’t we do that in a skill trade profession why isn’t that available for you know bluecar hardworking skill trade men and women because historically it’s always been the purview of the unions right you’ve got labor you’ve got management and rather than looking at the two of them as two sides of the same coin there’s this always this horrible divisiveness yeah and you know I I’ve always wondered is there is there a different way is there a better way and you know I think maybe there could be there’s definitely a better way this this has to be a collaboration for a business to work there has to be a collaboration between ownership and management and the employees and and I think we’ve gone to the N degree at groundworks we say in our company and we actually believe this that great companies are only Built by great people and if you treat them with dignity respect and you give them pay packages and incentive programs and then ultimately ownership there’s alignment there there’s complete alignment we are aligned on our mission as a business we’re aligned on one simple fact that our job is to to to is to frankly my job as CEO is to if I can give everyone in my company the tools to be successful the rest is up to them but we could have a lifechanging wealth event as we build this company together so it’s not only my shareholders which I have many but it’s also my employee owners which are also shareholders in a different way that all align together to achieve some outcome that were’re we’re all looking forward to I want to make it clear too the kind of work that we’re talking about that your whole company is based on the foundation of your company is truly foundational right that’s it you guys repair foundations in homes you encapsulate crawl spaces you repair crawl spaces you waterproof basements you basically are in a NeverEnding war with with groundwater yes right um the the degree of difficulty the manual labor required the grit in your employees which are now what close to 5,000 5500 yes sir unbelievable um you can’t overstate it and so this is why we ultimately met I think you you probably saw your employees in old episodes of Dirty Jobs 100% and um and so to turn those guys into owners of a company your size um I I don’t want to put words in your mouth but has it been done before in the blue collar space you know it’s interesting it has been done I we’ve all heard great stories of you know Walmart and and and other great companies that ultimately gave ownership along the way most most though they would do that after they went public right because they had a vehicle in which to do that U I know there there are really none in our industry uh that have done this um my industry is just frankly full of about 3,500 competitors no one’s thinking about ownership for employees they’re thinking about I hope they show off for work you know and we’re thinking okay if if you incent someone the right way and treat them respectfully give them incentive programs they’re going to show up for work so you know I I think if you think about the the Home Services industry very few examples if any of a large company like this granting ownership to employees so it’s a it’s a you know it’s uh it’s certainly a big experiment I am a you you know this I am a capitalist I am proud to be a capitalist I think our country is is Shifting in a different way um but I think capitalism does need to be more inclusive and the men and women that help make a company successful should share in the gains of the success of that company so we’re leap frogging around a bit and I apologize it was back in 2016 you and your wife buy a company we bought a company called uh Jes in Virginia Beach Virginia MH and um um you know we we decided to make a go of this business and ironically enough it was the the characteristics of the business I didn’t wake up one day and say hey I’m going to be in the foundation repair business what what the hell do you know about I know nothing I know nothing I do a little bit more now but I have great people around me that know what hell they’re doing all right uh but uh I knew nothing but what I what I saw was and and again accolades to you to some degree we talked about this briefly last night so you open the world to many folks that might not work in skilled trade about all the businesses that exist in this country to keep it going you literally open the world so I was a finance person and as I sat there and watch these they’re entertaining of course but for me it was more business-oriented row is out there finding businesses that no one knows even exists and in my little mind I thought man there’s so much opportunity to build a business uh and and and frankly so many businesses that people don’t even know about or forgot making healthy livings and building something special so that was always a nugget in my mind the other was looking at industries that are inefficient and and look water proofing is probably the second oldest industry in the world maybe um especially in this hotel yeah had no telling uh so as I looked at this industry and I met Jesse Waltz who I bought the ultimate company from I thought wow there’s there’s an opportunity to build something special here that they have an inefficient industry where there’s no Capital frankly there are a lot of men and women working on the business meaning like they’re they’re doing the day-to-day they’re not really thinking about how to build this business Beyond a nice paycheck and our industry is so episodic in nature so when we come to your home we’re going to do a job job and we’re going to do a good job and that would typically be it so and by the way your customer is probably in a stage of Panic or something close they’re scared the water is coming in they most important asset is potentially crumbling under their feet they’re freaked out yes so you’re not just sending in some guy with some tools to fix a problem you’re sending in like a superhero potentially yes and an ambassador to the whole company I mean it’s it’s just a it’s an extraordinary set of skills that you have to have to do that job right and you have to be trustworthy right so think about the work we do our customers can’t do that work you can do DIY all over your house but what you can’t do is lift your own home so we literally lift houses yeah and and and as as you saw we lift houses WE peer into the ground we lift houses to fix settlement we we Jackhammer around a basement to put in a a water management system that ex gets the water expelled from the home so all of these all of these jobs are not things that you could typically to yourself and so there is anxiety from the customer oh man there’s something going on I’m not sure exactly what it is and if you look at the material and the and the information out there it’s hard to discern the cost and the issue related to is this discretionary non-discretionary how fast my home fall down in the case of waterproofing yes they want that water out of there there’s no question but the other service is there’s there’s this a lot of misinformation or lack of information on what to do about the issue that arises and so going back to trust our job as a as a company is to deliver a trustworthy solution to the consumer and that’s why in talking about the commercials that we did together why wouldn’t we show the truth because that’s literally the business we’re in because because nobody does mant I mean the the the the story of my life has been a constant struggle with Brands to not not to trust me but to trust themselves right to to have the courage to let your own employees or your own customers truly do the talking not in a traditional testimonial way but really in an honest way I mean I I know a lot of CEOs I know a lot of small business owners a lot of big business owners they all say the same thing when it comes right down to it nobody ever does it nobody ever does it you can hear the sound of their sphincter slamming shut yeah when it really comes down to doing it you know so I mean again it’s a Well thank you for say look Mike I think the the thing that really resonates I’m not a real corporate CEO um you know we didn’t build this company because I’m some corporate guy I’m an entrepreneur and I believe I really believe in the men and women that make up our company and if we’re if we’re in the ultimate business of water management and displacement and selling trust that we will solve this issue which by the way you’re selling trust into an industry that’s Riven with mistrust oh it’s terrible is there is there any other industry that suffers more from a pre-existing skepticism and suspicion on the part of the consumer I don’t ass sure I could answer that but I I I do concur that in this industry in particular there is there’s the opport opportunity because of maybe Auto like when you go and get your you know your wife goes to the mechanic and and he says to her hey look you have you know your your light bulbs are out because the fluid’s low I mean you know unless you’re an educated person you wouldn’t know that guy’s lying to you it’s exact you’re helpless completely helpless and and so contractors in general just to be fair so we are a contractor uh we we go to market as a consumer company because that’s how we’re serving our consumers but in the end of the day we are contractors across Ross 33 States we have 23 Engineers when we go into a customer’s home contractors typically they’re notorious for scamming people you go in what’s a what’s your typical experience with a a contractor in your own life you go in you you have an issue someone comes they show up in a kind of a beater truck they’re not looking very professional they kind of look around they give you some mess they write it on a piece of paper and they say okay I need 30% Deposit they slap it down you’re like okay so you give this s a deposit you hope they come back and my experience is they rarely show up on time they rarely finish on time and you pay more and you you don’t get quite what you hope you got right so our company is the idea would be to deliver that service in a differentiated way so that we come we assess the problem honestly and the price is generally the going to be the price meaning it is expensive like depending on what we do this is not cheap work that you have to overcome that by the way because the consumer has no relative measure of price and value um you know in our process we showed them the pictures as you saw you you get under there and you in the case of our uh home that we did together you the walls didn’t even connect to the to to to to the room that you were working on the foundation wasn’t even connected yeah and so consumers would have no idea they would expect that home to be built properly and RAR do they get under there and witness it and so our process is we show them the pictures if I come up to to you and I show you hey Micha I just under your crawl space and here’s what we found you know that’s a trust exercise somewhere somebody is listening to this right now in real time in a home that is literally being supported by a stack of wood right like 2x4s 4X sixes they’re down there in some crawl space and somebody somewhere took a shortcut at some point in time and you know what it it’s still somehow standing but maybe not so much tomorrow that completely I we see it every day not to put fear to your listeners but we see every day shotty workmanship and and bad construction habits across the country literally because we post pictures on our own uh system where we see when we make a proposal to a customer and you go through these pictures and you you really can’t believe like all the shyers that are out there and how they they they frankly they take advantage of customers so what the heck happened you you and your wife buy this company and 7 years later you’re running what is this now a $2 billion concern or uh so we went from um we went from about 30 million to a billion in in seven years and this year the end of our eighth year we’ll be about a billion two uh I I can’t believe it I’m still the CEO of this thing you know so what did you do right A lot has gone well um I think the first thing I did right was hire the right people I surrounded myself with experts and and really smart people um I think any smart business owner would tell you the CEO is the CEO is just the CEO the company is run by the men and women that make it up and and so I I believe I really was successful at attracting and hiring talent that I could align in building on a mission so we build our company in three ways so we make Acquisitions so we acquire businesses across the country we’ve done 42 to date which makes you a greedy rapacious capitalist who’s sucking up all the monpa businesses and probably the Target of no small amount of derision over the last couple of years from a certain sector all the time all the time but if I presented the 42 men and women that I bought companies from men and women that started these businesses out of a garage uh I had one fellow that uh this is and our biggest acquisition and you’ve probably heard a million great entrepreneur stories but the biggest acquisition we’ve ever done um well over $150 million this is a big business and I I won’t say where because I don’t want to disclose who it is but he start started his business he wanted to be in foundation repair and he knew a good company in town and he knew their best salesperson he would follow the salesperson to the job that they would go pitch on they would go assess the home he would wait a couple hours and go back to that house and just happened to say hey I was in the neighborhood and I and I know you have issues with your foundation because he couldn’t afford to build the business to get the marketing to get the lead MH so he literally would follow around the best salesperson from a competitor and then go into that company afterward I me that house afterwards and sell a job that’s how this guy started GED this was a this is a hardworking man his his his wife uh was a um uh cosm she cut hair cosmetologist and uh frankly that couple really smart right so people often think if you don’t have some piece of paper you you can’t be intelligent and and I’ve actually seen quite the opposite I know folks with great degree that never use them as opposed to some of the people that I’ve surrounded myself and I work with and I buy companies from that’s some of the most full of innovation and Ingenuity um grit you know because there there is no you know we call it burn the boats right there is no other option they find a way to be successful and so burn all the ships in this case this one fellow you know he built a great business and and and now of course is worth hundreds of millions of dollars um another example is we is a fellow I can’t again can’t name him but he worked at a greeting card company got fired decided for whatever reason he was going to be a waterproofing contractor put an ad in the paper and started a company and was very successful we bought it so I I have a Litany of these stories so they they would tell you the opposite they would tell you hey I I I don’t care about this bad notion of private Equity um what I what I know to be fact is this this company ground works and Matt Malone and his team they did every said everything they said they were going to do and my I am now a millionaire because this crazy guy came in and bought my business and most importantly my people today are better off than than than than I could provideed for them the real reason you’re here um from my perspective anyway is that article that came out in the journal I guess it was about six or seven months ago big survey Gallup was involved couple of other um companies that essentially determined that 64% of Americans across the board um believe the American dream is dead and you know that had an impact on on the way I think about my foundation and it was part of the reason that we reached back out to you after we met a year and a half or so ago because the those 5,500 people on the front line how how many of them roughly have any college at all you know we don’t track that staff but if I were to wager I’d say less than 20% how many of them are either making six figures Plus or on a path to do it well over 50% so in the field for us as a foreman Mike the average pay for a good Foreman for us is somewhere between 85 and $110,000 now this is hard work I know and and you yeah right you do know and by the way in the field foren don’t look much different than guys on the first day of the job you know I mean they they’re all doing the work right right and and in fact you know the you saw the ages as well you can be young and be a for it’s just about the experience in knowing what you’re looking at and frankly being able to speak and lead people and so um you know when when when that article came out and we we we actually talked about what that means for our business I actually I believe believe the opposite I believe that the American dream is still healthy and Alive we have to do a lot to revive some of it but groundworks is just one example of what I see is is the American dream like you are a piece of the American dream I know I am a lucky piece of the American dream and I know 5,500 men and women at groundworks that will achieve the American dream once we’re successful now we we we have actually we’ve partnered up with private Equity firms along the way and I’ve had multiple events that for wealth creation so when I started the company I granted ownership immediately to managers and that we had 43 managers that be granted ownership to again never done before and I remember managers would say what what is this piece of paper this is just some con I mean I literally and I understand that sure some guy Financial guy coming in doesn’t know anything about foundation repair comes in Grants ownership okay this is this is a scam couple years later when we partnered with our first private Equity Firm those those folks made about 50 $1 million uh which is which is good just recently we partnered with as you know when you spoke at our kickoff it was happened to coincide with the announcement of our newest partner uh a firm called KKR and they allowed us to facilitate ownership to everybody but prior to that we had about um we expanded the pool from 43 to about uh 330 employees uh from the time we partnered with a our first firm called cortech in 20 to 2023 we expanded that pool from 43 to to 300 plus this is why it’s relevant so we paid out about $100 million to those managers now some of those managers left because it was the American dream they had now the capital to go pursue something else that they wanted to go do and they wanted to go lead and have the freedom to do that on their own and you know as a CEO that course you don’t like that because your best folks leave uh but in in thinking through it this is what where this company’s about this is what the American dream is about you seize the opportunity in front of you to change your life you have a little bit of capital and then you go give it a go that’s the American dream and so to some degree as we build this company I know I know hundreds of people ultimately leave our company with wealth uh to go do something on their own but that’s that’s a good thing that’s a good thing for America now we have to struggle internally to rebuild those those team and that’s going to be hard but you have to take perspective and say okay that that’s why we founded this thing for that very reason it it strikes me that the um the skepticism that exists between the consumer and a company that’s coming to fix a problem in the Home Services world is really not so different than the skepticism that exists with you know the average American today who’s who’s looking at private Equity Venture Capital entrepreneurship over here and then just back to the brute realities of getting the work done over here and we see these two different groups of people and we’re so divided today yes among you know well which side are you on Mike for God’s sakes right see I’m you and I do have a lot in common I I worked on dirty jobs for a long time but I’m not really that guy either you know my parents were Public School teachers and I grew up you know middle class and I went to college and I sang in the Opera and I did a bunch of things that are totally inconsistent with the way people think about me uh who have who have seen that show but I also had a front row seat to real work growing up and I did have a genuine appreciation for those men and women and I wanted to do something that that bridged it right you know right and so if there’s a question somewhere in there it’s you how are you able to bring those two sides together again separate and apart from a typical Union conversation and all of that you know collective bargaining and all that drama and all that acrimony that winds up tearing so many companies apart many of whom I’ve worked for before Big Blue Chip companies that this country you know really relies upon but have such a catastrophic relationship with their own people that’s the that breaks my heart honestly because why how in the world can a company move forward that’s hobbled that way well I thought a lot about this not just for this podcast but just from the course of how this business is coming together because we get this quite a bit like oh you you evil empire you’re private equity and they call you Darth Vader they did so I was in Seattle yesterday uh we bought a company in Seattle our second one and um you know even the former owner you know he was canting a story of how second company in Seattle yes sir second company in Seattle yes um and we’re merging these two companies together we will Rebrand them groundworks and great companies one’s Foundation one’s waterproofing but um so Dan was on the stage yesterday you know talking about his reticence to even talk to us for fear of what he heard is that we were Big Bad Evil Empire right so he referred to me and that’s the name I guess I had in this industry was Darth Vader so he introduces me as Darth Vader so I get up in front of you know 40 new employees teammates and then you know there’s Darth Vader so I tried to make a joke about it but what’ you say I’m not your father Luke I said welcome to the dark side or something great well the truth is you know when you’re you’re evolving in Industry you’re going to get a lot of push back and this is an easy scapegoat well he’s got private Equity backing behind him and does he’s evil right and I actually think sadly some of my competitors in our industry they’re rooting for for us to fail now think about this you have 5,500 men and women that depend on this company and I always extrapolate it’s probably three to four people that depend on that person working at groundworks so well over 20,000 men and women and so you have a you have you have folks that hate and are looking forward to a company failing so that 20,000 people could potentially be out of work it’s odd to me but as I unpack the private Equity I always say this is in our industry we have a great range of quality of service you have some you have some really bad waterproofers and Foundation companies and you have some really good on the other end of the spectrum private Equity is no different they’re no it’s no different than any other industry you need to pick your partners well and I picked good partners for disclosure I used to be a private Equity investor and work for several fir firms doing that and uh frankly decided I wanted to do something on my own and and that’s how I got into kind of my path but so as I share that with with my partners that join me and I share that story it resonates with them cuz I go to their town and I say hey Dan you got so so company over here do they do a good job no they’re terrible they’re terrible okay then I say okay is there a good one in town he said yeah me and this other guy I said private Equity is no different so let’s get rid of the fear of private equity and understand I’m going to pick good partners we have a track record now over years of success what do you want to achieve here do you want to achieve a wealth event for you and your family if you do we’re the right partner for you if you want to achieve a career path and a and a path to Financial Freedom for your employees this is the best choice for you and I have now when I was talking to Dan we have over 40 people you could call a ref reference checks to see if I’m full of or not and so they do and they all come back and say okay this is legit struck me yesterday as Dan was giving his final speech at the end he said something that uh I’ll never forget he said I did this I did this because I love you now he has kids in the business three of them and his plan was to give the the business to the kids but he felt like after hearing our story that getting giving ownership and a path to financial Independence for 40 45 people in his business was a better example of true love for the company and the Legacy that he built for over 20 years so you know so that’s something we’ve overcome and continue to overcome and you asked me the great question it’s was like how did you do do this how did you get into this and I think the role of the CEO is to walk in the light to always walk in the light and that means um doing things that are uncomfortable when you need to fix a problem for a customer or uh some piece of your business you you have the the courage to stand there and address it and and own it and you fix it and so this issue with you know Labor Management this conflict there doesn’t need to be a conflict if the path of walking in the light is is always in the best interest of the company and if the best interest of the company is collective growth and success and I Define that in a bunch of ways but in particular at groundworks a a path to financial success and freedom for 5,500 people including my investors we are all aligned on the same Mission we can only do that by taking care of our customers doing things the right way being open and honest about how we do it and then when we get there guess what we all win so this dichotomy of like management and and and and the the workforce I don’t I don’t see that I don’t even think about it I don’t even think about unions because in my company my job is to serve and and work down to serve my employees so they can grow our business and thus I make my shareholders happy it’s such it’s such a nuanced thing to say it shouldn’t happen have to be but as you may have noticed we’re in an election year the country is divided it seems on virtually every imaginable topic and there’s a lot of pressure from a lot of different sides to uh to to deepen that divide right yes so I don’t know as you were talking I I was thinking it’s the tropes that I’m so suspicious of you know and in some cases you know tropes and bromides and stereotypes they’re they’re understandable because they’re rooted in something that actually happened like if you think about KKR and RJ Nabisco back in the day that was a thing yes now they wrote a book about it yes called Barbarians at the gate and they made a movie about it yes right that’s yeah and I and I think of uh was it Charlie Sheen and Wall Street you know the good guys and the bad guys are so clear right and the line is so crisp and and bright but in reality I mean I was in Virginia Beach I was standing backstage with my partner watching you turn 5500 Men by and large with a high school degree maybe into owners of this company yeah that was something I mean I’ll admit it that was something to see and do you think it’s a model not just for your industry but but for all Industries I I think it must be it has to be and so this Grand experiment that wonderand away with our company um it has to work because I think this is the path forward for for our country capitalism has done so many great things for this this country I mean there there’s no question about it right there are some bad things that come with it there is no pure anything in the world there’s no pure economic system that’s ever existed but you have to balance the good and the bad right and and try to eliminate as much bad as you can in terms of of capitalism in particular you know as that whole economic system has evolved and there are compassionate people and I hate saying that phrase but compassionate people in charge of companies to change that Paradigm where you you do act with an inclusive nature I think it can change and that’s the only path forward for me the the other path forward is disaster the other path forward is you have a country that is no growth no Prosperity no hope as opposed to a a a capitalist system that is more inclusive that it rewards everyone for Success that allows everyone to align to achieve a higher standard of living for everybody and that’s ultimately the goal I think as we talk about the American dream we talk about um you know my little company doing its bit and I’m not look I I am just a business guy uh I am not you know an advocate like you you do such a great job there’s some great people in this country that are trying to be good Advocates I’m focused on my company and my family and my goal though is if I can do my bit as a CEO of one company and I could show a path a different path uh by our success then maybe other CEOs and maybe other private Equity firms will follow suit and say okay there’s an example here of something that really works well you’re going to have to navigate um an interesting path I mean I know the all Shucks thing is genuine I know you’re I believe you but people need to know about what you all have done you you you you have to be out there in some way and if this little podcast helps great but I just wonder what it what will it take to tip like right now I’m guessing other CEOs are listening and they’re probably asking themselves could we do this in our company what would it cost what would the shareholders think what kind of downward pressure am I going to get what kind of lateral pressure am I going to get right what kind of pressure did you get from your own suppliers early on when you started to make these moves you know I think it’s interesting to understand that uh like the world just didn’t roll out a red carpet to Matt Malone and go oh good that’s a great idea how can we help no it was opposite Ville so when we first started uh we don’t talk about this much but that when we first started um you know there was a period of time I was worried about making payroll uh put in perspective um so when I bought the company my wife Sarah she’s crazy crazier than I am we actually we we I bought this company in my early 40s put every penny I had and it moved in with my mom in your early 40s with two boys and a wife and she’s expensive you know so your mom or your wife well both but my my wife in particular uh she’s worth it but so but she agreed to do this and so we we put every penny we had in this company go do this and a complete Outsider imagine putting everything you have in a company that you don’t really know exactly like I can’t get on it I can probably now but back then I couldn’t do any of the work right so we get in there and I’m learning as fast as I can and the thesis was bring Capital process technology worldclass marketing world class talent and that we’ll be able to grow this business uh early on though on forget we had 190 employees payroll was about $290,000 every two weeks and I had enough money to make payroll for a couple months if I really up yeah today payroll is closer to 30 million a month so I can’t do that uh so but back back then it was a thing it was real and so the story looks great you look it out on a piece of paper and it’s up and to the right and you know people have said hey this company’s like a unicorn in Home Services fastest growing home service this company ever created but what they don’t know is you know talk about the sphincter tightening uh you know you you you go home to your mom’s house and the bedroom you grew up in and you’re like man I hope this works because I don’t think I can work for anybody um but there’s countless examples of that in America with great entrepreneurs so as we started off you know one of our desires was to lower our material cost thus get that savings and reinvest into our business to grow it and so our our suppliers didn’t like that so there’s a unque thing in our industry the suppliers actually charge more money and they give you some kind of territory it’s very odd and I won’t unpack it here but um they literally tried to put us out of business they literally your own suppliers yes yes in fact I got kicked out of the supplier Network never forget I I I bought the company this is embarrassing to tell you but I will uh my due diligence did not include due diligence on the supply chain I you know these are the this is steel and plastic and dehumidifiers I thought okay like there’s nothing unique about these products it’s it’s how we install them that’s unique well I didn’t know that we bought from this buyer group so as soon as I bought the company my um the former owner he said look we got to go talk to these folks and so I go up and I won’t say where but I go up to meet these these the controlling interest of this Supply Group and they had this beautiful campus with like nine buildings an homage to them like ego so people understand these are the people who control your oxygen 100% okay not only not only that Mike they supplied the software that our business ran on yeah so for those budding entrepreneurs out there that want to buy a business always do diligence on the supply chain uh I didn’t do that so anyway so I get up there and I’m touring the building they have plaques to the companies that buy the most and they rank them like this is supposed to be you know you should honored to have your name on these plaques and mind you all that means is you’re buying more crap from them and so I’m going around I see our brand and okay okay so it’s cool I walk into the president’s office of this company and I said listen as I grow my business well my unit costs go down as we grow and I see I’m ranked really highly my unit costs go down he says well what do you mean and I said well my wife goes to Costco and gets the 36 pack of toilet paper the unit cost of that roll is lowerer than if she went to 7-Eleven he looked at me and he said you’ll get the catalog price and you’ll like it rack rate you’ll get the rack rate I could believe it doesn’t matter I I literally I literally I remember I got back to hotel room that night and I told my wife I think I wor uh uh because the idea was I wanted to enhance my gross margin to pay my people more do a better job in technology reinvest in that business and I thought with size I could do that so that was not the case I ultim got kicked out of that group as you can imagine I was the devil some dude with with new ideas wanted to evolve my business more and more and at Great Pace it sounds like you wandered into like a a a mafia movie and you encroached on a territory that you know wrong block dude totally wrong area still going down Mike I bought a company one time um in in Winston Salem North Carolina uh it’s our my third acquisition we bought the company announced we had an event that night this network brought in a guy from another area in Knoxville Tennessee to do a coup on the business he hired every one of my production staff every single one so the next day we go to work I have no production staff think about that for a second they wanted to that was the last stand or they thought it was they wanted to put us out of business now thankfully at other businesses nearby that I could bring production staff from to to serve our customers um they they literally hired every one of production folks to go work for them now the flaw in that though they should have hired also the Salesforce they should have hired the Salesforce because I had a couple other branches nearby I can bring my teams down we could serve customers uh but that was one instance another instance we bought a company a great company in in uh Columbus Ohio Ohio basement Authority and said they tried to make the same run they came in and they offered get this $100,000 boat bonuses to come work for them and not work but just sit there because they they couldn’t compete against us in a certain market and so they they literally paid I think it was like 15 people $100,000 a year not to work just to try to harm us right so yeah talk about Mafia it I I can go on and on but it was it was it was Bloody the only thing that that’s comparable to that that I know of is in the egg business uh where for a time they called him set asdes essentially where you know you were you were paid uh just to set your crops aside you were just paid to keep them off the market you know world full of hungry people just will pay you not to sell the corn at any price you know so it it is this whole capitalism thing that we’re talking about it’s it’s not perfect it’s complicated it’s it’s Rife with unintended consequences yes but I think your point is you know can you find a better system or or or or blend a system that is more inclusive and and I think groundworks we trying to do that and by the way we see other examples of this across the country we really do I’ve seen a lot of companies in manufacturing and distribution attempt this and and many success stories what’s interesting is you don’t hear about it you don’t hear about it you know because corporations are bad rich people are bad making money is somehow bad um but if you go to my team and you talk about hey what’s exciting about ownership why are you here at work for example we work because we have families to support and as the job of the provider is to give them a better life that’s called work we all have to do it let’s pick a place that allows us to do that in a way that with Grace and dignity but also gives us the opportunity to have some kind of wealth event so I think you know this you know over 60% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck like four out of 10 don’t have $400 in their account for in case of an emergency this is not a dignified way to live and what we’re trying to do at groundworks is is along the way we have bonuses and performance bonuses by the way so as we perform we share profit sharing along the way but also having a wealth event that allows everyone in the company to have by the way they’re not all going to be millionaires Mike this not going all to be millionaires but they will be able to G enough wealth to to say have 12 to 15 months of salary in their bank account at one time as as one lump sum and this is this is transformational if you ask the average American would you like a one year of pay or a little more if we’re successful in your bank account as a estest EG and what could you do with that and look I I can only speak for my team there’s a lot of excitement about what that means for them um and what that could mean for their family to to provide some level of protection and financial we’re not talking about massive Financial Freedom no one’s going to go the south of France but they can sleep easy at night they can know that they work for a company that’s that allowed them to earn more and when I say allowed forgive me this is a meritocracy this is not charity this is not charity our our our team and I will only get paid as if we increase the value of the company so as we increase the value of the company the percentage of that growth comes to us and so as a as as a as an employee base and so the the investors I have two KKR and corch great great investors firms they’ve said okay I believe if you Empower an employee with ownership they’re going to work harder they’re going to take advantage of the opportunity and they’re going to build build more wealth for me as a shareholder now this is you know this is how it works but along the way they’re going to they’re going to set aside monies for us as as they grow their return we’re going to grow our return but here’s where it’s different in the mind of the average listener I think if I were talking to the CEO of Nvidia or if I were talking to any of the Silicon Valley guys we would just simply be repeating this idea that the risk innovation technology and forward thinking pressence all leads to some massive growth potential and now all of our employees like how many millionaires are there at Facebook how many millionaires are there and so that’s been drilled into our brain we know that that’s how great wealth is created so there’s a whole generation right now saying well I got to get with one of those companies because that’s the only way that’s the only way that I’m really going to hit it out of the park but no one’s telling the story of the company that has 5,500 guys who are willing to crawl under your house to do the kind of work that that kept Dirty Jobs on the air for 22 years because people deep down matt they know they know that there is a difference and I I don’t mean for this to sound like a value judgment but when you look at a smart educated person coding or doing a cerebral thing to help the AI connect in a more efficacious fashion you get it but it it just kind of bounces off your head and you’re like okay good for you whatever Voodoo you you’ve worked out good for you right Dirty Jobs worked and your company is thriving for the same reason the Optics are undeniable and when people get a look at the actual work that’s being done there is no mistaking it for work it is work that we all understand and so there is an imbalance in the way uh there’s an imbalance in what we Elevate there’s an imbalance in what we magnify and the kinds of work and the kinds of people who do the types of work we’re talking about that’s exactly right that’s that’s what I want to get at well think about that is that is goes to the heart of it the perception that that a white color person at Nidia right uh and likely our millionaires at this point three trillion dollar market cap crazy three and a half oh jeez bought some a few years ago good for you good for me but imagine so you have sold it a few months later oh oops oops anyway so but think about the dichotomy here you have you have this belief that oh yeah they’re doing some mysticism some magic over here and thus they should be compensated in in a in in a way that the average person can’t be because it’s different they they’re they’re doing something so unique may or may not be true um also can be true that the men and women that keep this country running that keep the power this building on that keeps the from overflowing that keeps that shower from working that keeps this Foundation from sinking into the ground they too do magic and they too add value to a company and thus should also be treated the same way as employee at Facebook they actually I would argue the grit required to work at a company like ours it’s hard you you’ve experienced it and not many people can do it so the resources the men and women that want to come and do this it’s harder to find and thus I would argue divin scarcity they should have the ability to earn and earn Equity as this company grows so but it’s if I could this this dichotomy between this accepted Norm that if you work in Tech that you’re some genius and thus you should be enabled with the privilege of ownership and and and wealth creation as opposed to the men and women that work under houses that keep this great country afloat they are the also rans that have been forgotten and thus they don’t deserve anything this is this dichotomy is the most Stark and it’s apolitical both parties seem to not really understand this fact that you can’t really have both and be a good society that you you there there’s a balance here and I would argue companies like groundworks and not just a commercial for us but the men and women that keep this company this country rather going they must be rewarded in a way that’s similar to the White Collar companies that are out there and the wealth creation opportunities that are available to them well look the metaphor is is right in front of us you know what what is your foundation built on and how sturdy is your foundation and who’s looking after your foundation you can have that conversation in the context of your home or this hotel or your nation or your country or any number of things so when you peel back enough layers there’s the water trying to get in there’s the foundation uh succumbing to Newton’s Second Law entropy I believe thermodynamics right a disintegrating universe that’s what we’re dealing with Matt yes we’re living in a disintegrating it’s undefeated that’s right it’s undefeated you know it’s like gravity water will find a way right so but I think one thing that uh that we talked about off off camera that is so important is look foundations are important but the National Security of this country is also at Peril because we don’t have enough men and women to do the hard work to build the war ships and tanks and and and equipment that this country needs to defend itself we saw in the in the in the pandemic we couldn’t even Supply our own goods and services we have outsourced everything so that we are not a sustainable nation and a long time ago I owned another company in the shipyard industry and I I know for a fact and I don’t know the broader statistics in general but I know at our company we had about 350 employees the average age of a welder was 50 53 to 54 years old and they’re retiring at 3 to1 so as they retire through every three retire one is replacing them latest is 5 to2 this unbelievable it’s 5 to this is a a national national issue that no one seems to talk about and I don’t like education is very important I went to college I’m a liberal arts guy me too I believe in it I believe in broadening the mind but I also believe it’s not for everybody and that we have to celebrate the men and women that say okay I’m going to go work in an industry that I’m proud of that I can earn a great wage hopefully be a part of a company where I do get some upside and Equity ownership to provide for my family when did you graduate by the way from college 95 where’d you go I went to a little College in Virginia called Hampton Sydney College mhm founded in 1776 no kidding yeah well here’s the thing about your degree man um everything you learned there everything I learned at Essex Community College and then talson State a couple years later is is on this device right now 100% and a lot of what a lot of what I paid for back then and you um it wasn’t the information it was the access to the information and we now have anybody with an internet connection has access to all of the known information under the liberal arts umbrella and so you know one of the things I said to your people a year and a half ago in Virginia Beach that I really meant was look the this combination of grit and skill that’s enabled you guys to become owners of this company is is a wonderful thing but in defense of the other side di for God’s sakes don’t abdicate on your own sense of curiosity dig in man dig I don’t care how hard you work or how much grit you have you’d better be curious to know a whole bunch of other stuff from all the things we make fun of from philosophy to English Lit to the south of France which by the way is a little overrated but whatever it’s a big world man and there and there’s no reason to think that the color of collars ought to keep people forever uh in their Lane right look the the the segmentation of blue and white color I even hate using those phrases right knowledge and the Quest for knowledge is independent of any collar I have I have great examples of a company that men and women that don’t have some sheep skin but they always in the Quest for knowledge and and as human beings we have to be always on the Quest for knowledge and Improvement that’s how we get better and so when we talk about the men and women that uh you do a lot of hard jobs around the country Dirty Jobs what we should make sure that the listeners know and and as we as we move forward and talk about it advocate for this that doesn’t mean that we’re we’re against the Quest for knowledge it’s actually the opposite yeah the the the premise of you need to go to a university that has increased their cost since 1969 31 times the cost of tuition that is what we’re arguing against that the path for each individual is not dictated through some institution of Higher Learning it should be it should be driven by someone’s own desire to seek a quest for themselves inclusive of through the powers that we have with the internet and all these great things that are out there the Quest for knowledge I I have for example I have U two people that are really senior in our company our chief Revenue officer uh Jeffrey martins’s name uh he’s 34 years old he went to Mobberly High School mhm never went to college um uh he’s probably been in this industry he started with his dad probably when he was 14 his gray matter his brain is one of the finest I’ve ever been around and he’s not running all the production for us because he’s a dummy um and he’s also not running it because he’s been doing you know foundation work for 20 years he’s doing it because he’s really smart uh our chief sales officer Ben flowers he too never went to college but cerebral man he reads all the time he’s like you he just quotes great great books and authors so this notion that if you work in a dirty job or a trade or whatever you want to call it that you’re somehow not intelligent this this is a fallacy and and frankly I think what it does it continues to push this divide yeah it does and again to say the same to complement the other side in the same way there are plenty of uh Silicon Valley types white collar workers who do have grit they don’t work under the house but they show up at 4 I mean Elon Musk slept right he he slept in his office for years unbelievable yes so you know I I make this mistake a lot you know and it’s a I kick myself every time I do it because in my in my attempts to make a more persuasive case for the uh what Victor Davis Hansen calls the muscular trades you know I’ll take a shot at that $ 52 billion endowment at Harvard and I’ll take a shot at the push to forgive student loans on the backs of the very people my Foundation has assisted and the ones you’ve hired right it makes me angry and I wind up inadvertently uh deepening that divide by making those points I’m guilty of that too but back to your other thing let’s let’s make the alarm clear because it’s no joke eight naval ships have been essentially decommissioned as in real time we’re at the end of August right now in this conversation I don’t know when this will air but uh it looks like it’s going to be more than that and they’re they’re I don’t know if they’re being mothballed or what but they’re being set aside for one reason a lack of qualified Mariners another sponsor of this podcast blue Forge Alliance oversees the submarine industrial complex this is 15,000 companies charged with building four nuclear subs to Virginia 2 Columbia class over the next 8 nine years they need 100,000 trades people mat a 100,000 and they’re at they’re like where are they I’m like well you know what ask caterpillar ask Volvo they’re asking the same question I don’t know any company any major company white or blue collar who is not wrestling with recruiting in a way that the country’s never seen before no question yes so okay you’re a smart guy you’ve been on both sides of the fence when when does it tip like when do we snap out of our stuper and and stop talking about the shortage in this cerebral way and and and do something on a national level to get to light a fire because we all have skin in the game this is this is the the most important question I think of our decade and maybe more is if we don’t replace the the men and women that keep this country going what what what literally happens is a AI what’s a AI chip going to do when you don’t have the power to run AI chips I mean they’re talking about you know the power required to run AI chips and and these data Farms that you know some of the bigger companies they’re talking about building their own nuclear power plants to keep their data centers going Mike who builds the nuclear power plants right I mean who build the same fellas probably that help build submarines right like who builds those things like these things all sound great on paper but people have to un start unpacking how will this get done and you know what’s interesting is uh Peter theel who’s a fellow that I follow and is a venture capitalist you probably know him um if you look at the transformation since the 70s we’ve talked about like there’s been a massive transformation and his argument is there really hasn’t there’s been an information technology transformation but you thought about the future from the 70s they talked about you know think about he gave us a great example a fell on the subway today taking the subway to work in New York City the only thing that’s changed for him is on the phone now and he feels like he’s transported via information Tech technology to to a different place the reality is that Subway is still the same that railroad is still the same there’s not been a lot of innovation related to moving forward in a futuristic way on the what I would call the you know kind of three-dimensional level right bites and bits great but think about future cities they talked about cars that could fly they talked about having three-dimensional roads right so right now they’re all two-dimensional they’re laying on the you know there’s no there’s no three-dimensional roads all these different factors by the way who would they help they would help support a middle class of of people that actually built these things and what we see is a dichotomy of you have the the the zeros and ones yes they’ve exploded but we have not Advanced as a society in many regards if you remove Elon by the way we really haven’t Advanced very much as a society outside of the information technology realm and so what I’m arguing here is that has the excitement about moving and having men and women that actually build things move forward in a way that is evolutionary as well the people that put things on screens they’ve they’ve evolved and at light speed but the hard Sciences they have not in terms of building things and how we do things how we live in the future so the fundamental things like you said it before gravity you know my favorite uh aspect of gravity is that it really doesn’t care if you believe in it or not you can make all the bits and bites arguments you want you can talk about all the new math there is you lean back a little too far on that chair yeah and and gravity will rear its head yes in a way that is simply undeniable I know the arguments uh Theo makes and and I think they’re terrific um because it’s so easy for the the ephemeral to outdistance the Practical and in the end it’s still highways and byways and streets and boulevards and Subways and planes and trains and maybe it’s a better plane maybe it’s a bigger plane maybe it’s a faster train but we’re still absolutely in that rubric we’re still utterly dependent on the same basic things we’ve been utterly dependent upon from the jump right which brings us back to the foundation and ultimately I think brings us back to the question that you posed what’s the Tipping Point at some point and has to happen soon men like you and maybe me have to be continued to Advocate the importance of this for the national health and prosperity dep independent of party or collar if we don’t address the issue of the shortage of people that actually do things and build things outside of the the the you know the zeros and the ones in the information technology realm it will all fall apart it literally will fall apart and it’s falling apart now the infrastructure in this country is falling apart we can’t even build the proper vessels to protect this country um the power grid here is is is failing and it’s going to get worse as we move into you know environmental uh products as well more pressure on the power grid so all these things lead to how do we address this shortage and if we don’t start advocating for it soon I am I’m very afraid of what the future looks like for my boys uh and their kids and what that looks like I think advocation men like you getting out there with the message this is important so again this is not political this is for the Safety and Security of our nation and we have to put trade schools back in high schools we have to we have to frankly encourage kids this is the thing is you shared with me that poster that uh that uh you’re famous for um we can’t have that anymore the the path to success is not through always a sheep skin in some fancy University for many it is and we want to encourage that because we we still want that we need that as you point out earlier but there’s many paths and a path to success for this country can go through many many different iterations that has to be something that’s back on the the discussion table and advocated by the leaders of this country here if they really care about it it has to be brought to the attention of the of the of the nation challenge is you part of making that argument by definition is making a case for grit and when you make a case for grit and hard work in and of themselves separate and apart from skill knowledge so forth um then you’re right adjacent to a lecture and you’re and you’re imp implicitly suggesting that many of the people who are listening don’t possess assess the grit and are therefore what lazy and now now you’re that guy right now you’re on the porch shaking your fist to the kids get off the lawn and so forth and I’m I’m super wary of that as well my Foundation is centered on a thing called a sweat pledge and it’s an easy target and people look at it and they’re like ah you just you’re just running cover for whatever the employer back to that whole thing and it’s I don’t know how really to get past all of that but I wonder if that is even going to be a problem in the coming year because if the American industrial submarine complex can’t satisfy that need and if the Navy can’t keep the ships then this conversation about crumbling foundations and plumbing issues and so forth is going to become very subordinate very quickly yes and and that you know look I I don’t want to see that happen but I do believe it takes it takes an event sometimes a Splat a Pearl Harbor a 9911 something existential often needs to happen to slap us out of our malaise Mike if Co didn’t do it what’s going to do it I mean think about we couldn’t even support we couldn’t even bring in drugs we couldn’t manufacture drugs and the again we’re bringing chips back to the country today but that’s taking forever um you we’re two years into the chips bill you know they spent $8 billion recently to and there’s no you know I haven’t seen any real progress on bringing that back um so if you think about these existential things that have happened I mean we just got out of one where we couldn’t get the proper drugs manufacturing capacity to to to have this country continue to service itself properly run on you’re about to ask me what we learned what did we I don’t know that’s irony we just got through something and it now seems like oh didn’t even happen and like we’re memory holding an entire threeyear period yes which by the way defined your company completely completely did this is why I may call me a what is it a a cockeyed Optimist but there’s got to be a silver lining to to the show and and part of it was a new that particular thing was an elevation of essentiality you guys had shirts right said the essentials Essentials yes and I mean it it it so for time anyway it refocused people’s understanding of the stuff Peter teal was talking about and that’s in your lane but sidebar what did what did 500 pounds of steel cost in 2020 and what did it cost in 2021 yeah yeah well for us our steel prices went up about 40% during that period now they’re down now but to your point couldn’t get it in and if it if you could get in you couldn’t move it um so again the importance of having manufacturing here United States to mitigate and lower costs and manage those things in terms of Co though and talking about how that changed the the entire industry itself of Home Services if you think about um you know the again we don’t get off two topic but think about the economy itself what I think a lot of folks realized during the pandemic mic was okay we both know this retail is dead that you don’t want to be a retail investor today you don’t want to own real estate in a retail Center I mean Amazon has killed that okay then look but that’s evolving whatever but you don’t be in retail so where does the money go the money has realized okay goods and services are still consumed at the home and the home is the last Bastion of how how professional investors figure out how do we how do we get goods and services to the consumers at home cuz that is the last Holy Grail of of real wealth I’m sorry investing if you think about it so our company positioned in that spot has been very helpful to us in terms of what you said we help us be successful the other thing I think that’s really made it successful and it played out during covid like my investors at the time you know they live in New York and they it’s a different world and you know we went to work homes needed to be fixed and uh we were essential employees and we out there doing it so not only us but plumbers and electrician and roofers you know I remember at some point even in you know highly blue States they we had to have letters that said our trucks could could operate because it was a central service someone had to fix something and think about the power there and think about that whole transformation and it really did set aside my team doesn’t have the luxury to work at home I can’t fixure house might working at home and so in our company it was okay if if the vast majority of our men and women are out there fixing homes my corporate staff their ass will be in the corporate office doing their job to support the branches that we have so they could support our customer this is super interesting so yeah I think I think musk made the argument he made a moral argument for returning to work um this is I this is a to topic that’s impacting every single business I know of how do you guys think about it I think I know the answer you know the answer Mike I there’s no thought there’s no thought so I’m overhead my corporate staff brilliant people great people they are overhead when you walk into our corporate headquarters it says field support center my customer my corporate staff customer are the branches and the men and women that go go to the home they serve the customer in the field we serve them and the notion The Arrogant notion that some some white collar guy because he’s in marking can somehow sit in his home where my foreman and my great crews are out there sweating or in the cold in Fargo and we have a branch in Edmonton could you imagine I can’t live that way we have a code and as a CEO of this business we have to be Equitable and so there was there was a there was a period of approximately 8 days when Co first hit mhm that we we were like okay we’re not quite sure what to do and I didn’t even know would the company even make it you just didn’t know and I remember we quickly we froze salaries for corporate employees um and had them to go to a 4-day war Creek and I promised them we’d pay him back I promised them mhm and we because she just didn’t know so quickly into that we realized we’re full bard and we went back to work and everyone came back into the office and you had a social distance I remember my I had to hire firms to come and clean the office and spray you know we didn’t know in retrospect you’re like is this really even working but we did that and we did actually repay all the all all the folks in the corporate team but I I completely agree with musk and everyone else that says look how can you allow the segmentation of your Workforce you can’t if you’re an honest good person and you want to live your life with Equity meaning treat people the same the people that have to go to work have to go to work they have to be in the office that that’s our belief it’s always been our belief at groundworks and so when I hear this debate I don’t know when to bring people back should they work three days a week or two days a week like what in the world are they talking about I even I don’t know if this is true there’s some federal employees that have not gone back to work yet and and talk about we talk about this culture clash it’s really a class issue this this class issue we have those Essentials that keep this country going and this is probably we have some of these comments that you and I have sometimes that we probably shouldn’t make but there’s a there’s a true class issue you’re not as important as me Mike thus get your ass in that truck and come fix my toilet yeah I’m going to sit in this beautiful room and and you know build code for the next you know great chip I’m more important than you that’s what that literally is telling the country and we don’t believe that we don’t believe that at groundworks we never operated that way how many people could you guys hire right now if they showed up ready for work ready to be apprenticed ready to learn under the house everything they need to know to get on the path we’ve been talking about well we have open Recs right now of over 250 people um but strategically so our our biggest impediment to growth we’re opening new offices so we like to open new offices around the country that’s our biggest impediment to growth is people and so we we’re at 73 offices today I think ultimately we can be over 200 right so that’s the the big puzzle for for this this management team and our company is figure out how do I staff 20000 offices how do I do that and so right now shortterm name is call it 250 260 but to continue our growth in success we need to staff up over you know call it 150 offices and how do we do that uh so that’s the biggest that’s the biggest thing that I always worry about people say what are you concerned about business are you concerned about the economic environment and um yeah always concerned you know but it’s always more important about where do I find staff and get really good men and women that believe in the dream so that’s probably where we land the plane because like you said that’s the question of the decade and uh to the extent that microworks is is able to help answer it in your world I’m at your disposal and um I I really appreciate you coming on to talk about it because I think I hope we’re going to see a uh a coalescing of like-minded people who are willing to ring the bell because I just don’t I don’t get the math I I don’t get five in five out two in I don’t understand how your challenge of Staffing up a couple hundred offices over the next couple of years is somehow going to I don’t know how are you going to do it at the same time the submarine industrial base is trying to hire 100,000 people now granted they’re not the same people might be a slightly different skill set but it’s the same attitude it’s the same willingness to dive in and get their hands on a thing to fix a problem so you know I don’t have a crystal ball but you know let me know if I can help well everything you’re doing outside of my company everything you’re doing to to Pro promote and speak about this issue is critically important so thank you on behalf of all your listeners that uh that follow you and it’s really important and um look I I I want to say this if I could U groundworks is built on two things people that care and then have grit caring is is the thing you have to care you have to care about your team and your customer uh and be willing to work hard and that’s how we’ve been successful the last thing I want to say to your listeners is the American dream is alive it is alive and don’t believe any different I see hundreds of examples of it all the time my company’s example of it so if you’re out there struggling and you’re trying to find your path keep grinding you can find it you can be successful because if I can do it anyone can do it just don’t give up keep grinding the dream is there you can do it 4,000 people with a high school education on a path or making six figures I’d say the um I’d say the evidence demands a verdict time will tell and I’ll give my damnest to make sure that it’s successful thanks mat thank you if you like what you even you don’t won’t you please sub I hate to beg and I hate to plead but please pretty freaking please pleas please oh please [Music]
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